You don't need a singer to make good rock music, and Cincinatti based Ampline are proof of that. I interviewed guitarist Mike Montgomery, bassist Kevin Schmidt, and drummer Rick McCarty when the band arrived in Huntington for their August 9 show. Here's what they had to say about going instrumental, the DIY life, and art patronage, among other things. To download songs, including two from their latest album, The Choir, visit their website at http://ampline.indiepress.com/

Jen: Is there a thriving scene in Cincinnati right now?

Mike: We're trying. We're trying to do something.

Rick: I wouldn't call it thriving.

Mike: It's getting better, you know. The scene's getting a little better every day. There don't seem to be too many people doing their own thing. There's some young kids that just started like a punk rock collective. I would say Wally World is pretty much operating as that, and a place called The Void is like an all ages club. So there's a scene for the kids that are maybe 18 and under, but for people our age there's really nothing. And we've already moved through that, and, you know, it was totally different when we were that age. Now at least there's something for the 14-20 year olds to do.

Jen: Are there a lot of all ages venues?

Rick: Two, and they're pretty new.

Jen: That's better than none.

Rick: Yeah, but they're very, uh, flying by the seat of their pants and underfunded.

Mike: Yeah, it's real renegade. They get shut down all the time. But at least it's cool. I will say the kids are doing that. It would help if they were a little more organized. But as far as bands touring and putting out records and stuff on a bigger level, there's really nothing like that going on, I don't think, other than like the stuff that we're trying to do.

Jen: So you guys are pioneers in the scene right now?

Mike: Kind of. We just try not to be lazy like I think the other people do. We want to do it for more than fun. We have fun doing it, but I think we're all interested in like…

Kevin: …pursuing it as far as we can.

Mike: We don't want to just, play a show…

Kevin: …in town on a Friday and then not for another month or something.

Jen: Yeah, do the backyard rock star thing.

Kevin: Exactly.

Jen: So, you guys are all instrumental, right?

Kevin: Yes.

Jen: How did that come about? Did you ever have a vocalist? Did you ever want a vocalist?

Kevin: No. Me and Jeff basically started doing it with two other guys, and we just kept writing songs and nobody was really stepping up to sing them, and so we just continued to write, and pretty soon we really liked the way that it was going instrumentally, and also it just pretty much set the paradigm for it. It kind of happened accidentally, but I've always wanted to do it, have an instrumental rock band, but I didn't think anybody would be into it, and it just kind of worked like that.

Jen: That's good. There's not many instrumental bands.

Kevin: My dad listened to a lot of surf music and there was no singing in that, and I think that might have… well, I didn't really think it was that big of a deal to do it that way.

Jen: Do you think that not having a vocalist is going to impact your success at all? I mean, most labels are looking to put a song on the radio that people can sing along to; they're looking for the big vocals.

Mike: I think we were surprised. We have a company that we go through that does radio promotion and stuff for us, and when we did the record I think we all wanted to send it off. I mean, we didn't really expect anyone to play it on a radio show, but a lot of people actually liked it and it got played on a lot of college stations and stuff, which surprised us, I think. I thought it would do well with people on our level, just like an underground word of mouth level, but I didn't think anyone would like to listen to it on the radio, but I was pretty surprised with the results.

Jen: What song is getting played?

Mike: It was real different which ones they would pick. I thought they would pick the two short ones, but some people were picking one of the longest songs. I think "Drawn and Quartered" got played a lot and "Losing Things to Find Them Later" got played a lot.

Kevin: There's a couple that were real radio friendly, like three minute songs, and then the others were like seven or eight, and it didn't really prejudice, they just played different ones, different cities did.

Jen: That's good.

Kevin: But then there were other cities that were like, "We're not going to play it."

Mike: We do get that a lot.

Rick: There's definitely a niche for the music, I think, but when you're talking about the next level, of bigger labels and radio and all that stuff, I think there's definitely a stigma to not having a singer. But in the independent music world, there's definitely a good base and a good scene for that stuff, so, we just gotta find our niche.

Kevin: We're all very realistic about the potential and everything.

Rick: Like I said, it's instrumental, but it is rock music and it is energetic and it's not jazzy, it's not really improvisational like jam bands or anything, so it's got a potential for an audience, I think.

Kevin: I also just like the aspect of maybe doing stuff with film and skate videos and stuff like that.

Mike: Or NASCAR racing.

[everyone laughs]

Kevin: No, but I like the way music and imagery go together.

Mike: I think if we could do soundtracks for skate videos, I think we'd all be pretty happy.

Kevin: That's pretty much what made me want to play music, was the bands on the skate videos.

Mike: Yeah, same here.

Kevin: Just watching kids skate and listening to that music. We'd go out and do the same thing, put in your favorite tape and just skate all day.

Jen: You guys could work on songs for Olympic snowboarding.

Kevin: There you go! I'm down with snowboarding, too. Surfing. Golf.

Jen: Now, I don't think I've seen much golf video with rock music.

Kevin: A golf band, man. Rock and golf.

Jen: So how did you guys get started?

Kevin: Me and Jeff, and Chris and Drew, two guys that I play with in another band now, we all came from kind of different musical backgrounds, but kind of similar. They were more West Coast punk rock, and me and Jeff definitely had some more of the artsy stuff, some more of the indie rock stuff going on. So we just got together and started writing songs, and then they both kind of lost interest and lost a little bit of faith in doing it, an instrumental band, and they had other things, like girlfriends that they wanted to make wives, and stuff like that. So then we'd been doing a lot of shows with Thistle, Mike and Rick's other band. They knew a lot of the songs, so Rick was first, and then while we were recording, Mike had some guitar lines, and we were like, "Why don't you just join the band, you know? We're with you all the time anyway," so it worked out perfect.

Jen: So, the band's been around how long?

Rick: In various incarnations, since like '97.

Mike: I started in November..

Rick: I've been involved for a year and a half.

Jen: Have you been touring very much?

Kevin: We actually just did a tour in March and we're looking to go back out in October. We tour as much as we can.

Mike: We kind of had some other plans. I got hurt right in the middle of it and that kind of put everyone out of commission for at least four months, I'd say. We're kind of picked back up to speed now.

Kevin: It's real hard to organize the four schedules. I mean, they've got upwards of four other bands, I've got another band. I think Ampline's our main focus right now, but it's hard to organize the tours, really. Especially doing it yourself.

Jen: Figure out when everyone can do it.

Kevin: Exactly. How long we can do it. Where we want to go.

Jen: So, what are your goals for the band?

Mike: Just as far as we can go. I think ultimately all four of us would love to just be on the road for very extended periods of time. I mean, if we could even do enough to where we could get by, like upkeep of the vehicle and upkeep on equipment and…

Kevin: Bohemian.

Jen: Pay your way.

Mike: Yeah, whatever we can do, I think we would be happy touring pretty much all the time. Do a long tour, write a new record, record it, do another tour. I think that would be fine with us. I mean as far as like making money and selling a ton of records, if it ever got to the point where we could sustain ourselves and have listeners that were interested each time we put something out, on a larger scale than what it is now, I think I would be happy with that.

Kevin: Or, I think my main thing is as long as we keep progressing as a band, and stay above, keep moving forward, I think that's the most important thing. 'Cause it's hard. We all sometimes lose a little bit of faith, or get bogged down with work and school and everything else. But as long as we progress we'll be alright, I think.

Jen: So, what do you think of the state of the music industry and how do you think it affects bands like you?

Rick: It's terrible.

Jen: It's terrible. Yeah. I think a lot of people would agree with that.

Rick: I mean, you could talk for hours about that, you know, it's very…

Mike: Try, like, 45 seconds.

Rick: … it's very inclusive, you know, and the whole inclusive nature of the "industry," as you call it, has trickled down even to the independent rock world itself. We've found a lot of record labels and booking agents and promoters and, there's cliques everywhere, and I think that there's definitely a decline in interest in the general public about live rock and roll. It was at its peak in the early 90's and then it got so saturated that trends changed and it went completely in the other direction of live music, you know, music with integrity…

Kevin: It's starting to come back around. You're starting to see some bands.

Rick: Yeah, I think it's starting to get a little better, but, I mean, as far as the industry, the big companies that drive the music industry, they're not doing very much to help out, I don't think.

Jen: I think one thing that's bad about that is people don't go out to see bands, so bands don't get promoted, so, people who want to go see bands find there's nothing to go to.

Mike: There's a lot of money tied up in a major label band's tour. Plus a lot in promoting it, and the support you bring with you, and your road manager, and your stage guy, and your sound guy, and your light guy, and I mean, bands go on tour and you're getting a couple thousand dollar guarantee, but your label's already got two grand in each show anyway, so you're really not making any money. And as far as bands just doing it their own way, three or four guys in a band paying for everything themselves and playing shows, there aren't too many bands these days that can do that and live doing that.

Kevin: Yeah, you start to hit the bottom. The barrel goes empty after a while. It's hard. But it's fun, I guess.

Jen: Do you think the whole computer thing has had a bearing on that?

Kevin: For us, I think it's helped a lot, as far as getting it out there, and links, and bands you play with, labels, and I think it helps spread for the independent thing, but I don't know. It's kind of weird. There's really not a lot of point anymore, I think, of recording that much and actually selling CD's, because you can go on the computer right now and download every song we've ever done.

Mike: I think it's so easy to disseminate information nowadays, but the dissemination is so widespread it's sometimes hard to weave your way through and find what you really like. It's really easy to find if you know what you're looking for, to find it or to get information, but now it's so easy to put yourself out there, it's so oversaturated.

Rick: Just like in the early 90's when kind of punk rock got popular, there were a million punk bands playing and there were a million shows so people were like, "We're sick of seeing shows every night." It's the same thing now. There's good and bad, 'cause anybody nowadays can record stuff, put it up on a computer, have a website, send it out, people can just listen. It's very much free trade of music nowadays, from all over the world. You can be in touch with anyone anywhere. There's a good aspect to that, I think. I think it's very positive. Free communication with anyone and everyone. That's really cool. But I think it definitely does have somewhat of an impact on the live performance end of it.

Kevin: But then again, it would be hard for us to get our music to New Zealand and things like that. We get emails from people that want to buy the album, so it kind of works out.

Mike: From the weirdest countries. Australia, Thailand, Italy, Belgium… I think there's a real hunger for American culture and American output in European countries.

Rick: There's always been, though.

Kevin: But I had never experienced it firsthand. I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing until I can afford Europe. That's my goal.

Jen: That sounds like a pretty good one.

Kevin: Once I get that one, I'll set another one, so I don't have to stop.

Jen: You should do Australia, too.

Kevin: Yeah.

Mike: Europe and Australia, and Japan.

Jen: South America's really hungry for live bands.

Rick: Some people, some labels contacted us from Brazil.

Kevin: I heard it's kind of scary, though.

Mike: I heard it's real scary, too.

Jen: I would think Brazil wouldn't be too bad.

Kevin: Well, I actually know a band that tours Brazil and they said that the shows there were all on the verge of being out of control, because they don't get it, so it's not only the kids that like the music, it's everybody goes to the show. It's just loud music and everybody's freaking out, so it's kind of scary a little bit, you know. Just being in a different culture and not really expecting that.

Rick: You mean Hot Water?

Kevin: It's actually Hell Nation.

Rick: Hot Water's supposed to go down there.

Mike: Do Hell Nation still tour there?

Kevin: They still go down there all the time. They go to Hong Kong, Tokyo, all kinds of crazy places.

Mike: Wow. They making decent money off that?

Kevin: Out of debt. But here they don't really do anything. It's just weird.

Jen: What are some of the musical influences on your style?

Rick: A lot of the D.C. kind of Dischord hardcore stuff I think is a big influence on these guys, and it's become more of an influence with us individually, but as a group I think that definitely has been a big influence. I think a lot of the Chicago Touch and Go, Southern Records artists also.

Kevin: Punk rock in general. Skateboarding was a big influence on it, 'cause it just opened that door at an early age for all of us. Like, you'd step on a skateboard, punk rock would just start pouring in your ears and you couldn't stop it. So, I think that's why I do what I'm doing.

Jen: I think we need a resurgence of that music.

Kevin: Well, I've been influenced and inspired by so many of the people that did it back in the 80's. It changed my life, made me want to do it, you know. Try to make a difference, I guess. Entertain.

Jen: I was just discussing with somebody last night about how it seems like a lot of the indie music that's out now, that the passion's gone out of it. It's just this cookie cutter kind of thing.

Kevin: Oh yeah. Exactly. It's definitely getting, I think, a little polished. It's getting polished and it's starting to change. But I don't know, there's always been bands that just come out of left field that…

Mike: There's a lot of bands out there that will surprise you.

Kevin: …that five years down the road they might be a lot of people's influence, but right now they're not being heard.

Mike: That's what I think is part of the problem. You have everybody listening to all these bands and they're like, "Well, you know, they all sound the same," and because of that they're a little deterred from hearing a lot of the other bands. There's a lot of other great bands out there, that for whatever reason, you're not going to hear, and I think that's one of the reasons, and then their time is past and they're gone.

Mike: It's so weird what an important role timing has in things. There's so many bands that I liked growing up that never really got their time in the sun because they were overshadowed by someone else who happened to do this or that.

Jen: It kind of comes back around for some of those bands, though. I mean, if you think about it, Big Star didn't do anything in the 70's, and they're everybody's influence now. A lot of punk bands that got minimal attention…

Mike: Like Mission of Burma getting back together and stuff, because a guy put a book out. And reading what Michael Azerrad wrote about them made those guys think, "Goddam, we did influence somebody, and we did have an impact."

Jen: So, other than skateboarding, which you mentioned already, what are the biggest non-music influences on your music?

Rick: Work.

Mike: The hatred of work.

Kevin: Just working at things you don't enjoy, I guess-- kind of meaningless, demeaning moreso. So, I guess it's an escape, really. Kind of an addiction in the same.

Mike: It's like a Tarzan movie coming out of our amps. "God, get me out of here." Or sink into your chair and just… That's it, it's really that simple.

Kevin: And art. We just want to create.

Rick: It's all we want to do.

Mike: And just making stuff. Keep our hearts good. Try to make good stuff.

Kevin: I think we've all been pretty artistic our whole lives.

Jen: You guys do visual art, too? Writing?

Mike: Yeah.

Kevin: He does a lot of writing, a lot of art. I like to mess around with video. Jeff paints and stuff like that.

Mike: And Rick has his dance.

[They all laugh.]

Jen: Tell us about that.

Rick: Not yet. It's still in the works.

Mike: Oh, you're writing a new piece?

Rick: Yeah.

Kevin: It's part booty clap, part rain dance?

Rick: Yeah.

Jen: Sort of a performance art thing?

Kevin: Yeah.

Rick: No.

Jen: No?

Rick: Satire is really… there are other forms of art.

Kevin: We're a pretty satirical bunch, I think.

Mike: But it's all in good fun. It's not mean spirited. I think we look at our situation and it's so comical sometimes. I know Kevin and me personally find, I know I find almost everything that happens to me in my life to be just hysterical. I mean, it comes down to you're like, "Ugh."

Kevin: Like a slap in the face.

Mike: But when you think about it, you're like, how funny is that! That's not to say I don't get upset or pissed or fret things at the time, but when I look back I'm like, "Wow. That's really funny." It's pretty hard to try to have a conversation with someone else who's trying to be serious .

Rick: I'm surprised this interview has gone as well as it has, honestly.

Mike: This is about the most straight ahead answers anyone has ever gotten from us.

Jen: Well, maybe things would have been more interesting if it hadn't been so straight ahead. I know what that's like, though, when someone's trying to carry on a straight conversation with you and you're just not having any of it.

Rick: That's usually what happens.

Mike: It's weird. It's just maybe we've been playing together for a long time, and Rick and I have been playing together even longer with different bands and stuff. We were in a band, this other band we played with in Michigan last weekend, and, I mean, there was like nobody at the show, so to salvage us having a good time our bass player made me a-- he called it a magic friendship safety pin-- out of the ends of my guitar strings. He busied himself for a half an hour unwinding strings and putting this together.

Kevin: He's still got it.

They point it out on one of Mike's tennis shoes, and it's quite cute, made of the barrel ends of strings, in several different colors, threaded onto a large safety pin. I've seen similar things for sale, actually.

Mike: To have something fun to do. Like we just drove six hours there, and we're sitting there just like, "Oh my God, what are we doing here," and then he saves the day by…

Kevin: that magical friendship thing

Mike: …and just being a cool guy. Just stuff like that's funny, the little things. You know what I'm talking about. Like, why do you do a 'zine, you know? Why do stuff?

Jen: Yeah. It's an outlet. We did it because a bunch of us are aspiring writers, we all love music, and mostly not real mainstream stuff, and we wanted to do what we wanted to do and say what we wanted to say, and give attention to bands that we think are really good that nobody else is giving much attention to.

Kevin: And that helps a lot, too, you know.

Mike: Like, hey, you showed an interest in us.

Jen: And I try to link to everybody's pages and label pages, and if people have got MP3's up I tell people where they can go listen, because it's one thing to read a review, but if you read a review and then you can go listen to some of it, I think that's going to make a lot bigger dent.

Kevin: Oh yeah. That kind of stuff helps a lot. I mean, it's like we did an interview for a small 'zine in Germany and-- the kid's from here, but he writes a 'zine in Germany.

Mike: He's from there, but he's here going to school.

Kevin: Yeah.

Mike: He's definitely fluent in German.

Kevin: I mean, it's-- there'd be no other way. It's the favors and the nice things that people do for you that you're kind of amazed sometimes, like feed you and then give you a place to stay, and like shower and use all their towels, and eat all their breakfast.

Jen: But it's fun on the other side, too. It's good, if you love music as much as I do, to be able to do something to keep it going.

Kevin: I don't think people often realize how much that stuff helps. It can kind of seem dead weight. Even Mike's small 'zine that he does, anytime we tour or go anywhere, those get read by people, and there's a lot of local bands in there and a lot of other bands that Mike's came across that he thought were good, you know. Anything to spread the word, I guess.

Mike: You never know how someone you meet, what kind of impact that's going to have on your life. Sometimes you do. I mean, a lot of times you meet people and you just log it in your mind somewhere and then five years later the thread is completed. Five years down the road, you took completely separate paths but you've reconnected at some point for some reason and you see what kind of tangible impact you had on the other person. Sometimes it gets kind of weird.

Kevin: I think it's neat how people collaborate, to help any form of art. I think that's inspiring in itself, that people want to be inspired so much that they'll form coalitions across countries and everything else, like our other band, it was just really strange. It was so underground and we were just so young, but still, just the way tours worked themselves out, it was amazing. This person would be like, "I know somebody here, call them."

Jen: It's good when things work out that way. I think, really, the internet has helped that a lot, because there are so many of us who say, "I don't know anybody else here who likes these bands," but then we can find 300 people all over the country.

Mike: And you can do your 'zine from five different countries if you wanted to, let people contribute.

Jen: Well, I've got Canadians, and my writers are spread out all over the country. But it's fun, too, because we can road trip and all get together at shows. It puts back together something that was-- there was a time period for people my age who were still active in independent music where it was just dead. There was nothing going on, there was no way to find out about anything, things were spread out, and then when everybody got online in the late 90's then everything just kind of came back together and now we all feel like we're alive again or something.

Kevin: Oh yeah. It did definitely die for a while. It was completely dead. It was almost kind of scary, you know. There were a couple of bands out there that still remained true, but I think it's a hard thing to do, especially with music, like bands. It's expensive to maintain a band, it's expensive to promote, expensive for equipment, and I think once it starts to die there's nothing you can really do anymore. Go get a stupid job and wait for people to like music again. But there's a couple of bands that just stayed together and toured, like Fugazi. They kept inspired.

Mike: I'm surprised a band like Superchunk stuck together. You've got guys like Mike Watt that still do it every year. You think, "Well, dammit, if this band still has faith in what they're doing, maybe I should go see them," and they are still relevant. I think you realize stuff like that. So many people are so quick to dismiss bands as being irrelevant, like, "Oh, they're irrelevant." I just got into a conversation yesterday about someone telling me how Sonic Youth sucked and how they lost their attention years ago, and I was like, "You know, they kind of wandered off on their own path, but they've been doing it for 25 years." And I was like, "I'm telling you, their new record is great. I'm telling you, you will like it." The guy was like, "Fuck 'em." I was like, "What an asshole." I mean, they're still capable of making amazing music. They've got 25 years experience behind them. You're going to dismiss them because you didn't like a record they put out?

Kevin: I think a lot of people forget that music's art. I think, 'cause, I don't know, you sing the songs and they become part of you that you want to have control, and when they go in different ways, you forget maybe they're forging something. I watched this special on Pablo Picasso. There were so many times that he was doing something, people were like "Put this away. Turn them to the wall. We don't want to see them," and years later people are like… and I think often the fact that music is an art form gets lost. It's so polished and so commercialized that it's almost like a product.

Jen: Oh, I think people view it as a product.

Kevin: It's not. It's an art form.

Jen: I certainly think that the record industry views it as product.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Mike: Or units.

Kevin: Units. Not even a product.

Mike: How many units of this nipple can we sell for the public to nurse on?

Kevin: Me and Mike were talking about this the other day. I hate to, like, label, but I think the majority doesn't want to be inspired to think, and I think that's why they can play the same tracks day after day after day and just every so often bleed one new one into the rotation, and people don't have to think about anything. They don't have to, it's just spoon fed to them and they're like, "Great. I don't have to think."

Rick: 'Cause they're almost inundated by it. There's so much of everything now, you have so much information coming at you, musically. Art has been bastardized so many ways, it's just thrown at the public in horrible ways, and it's just nonstop. You're bombarded by it constantly, so it's like you just become desensitized and stop caring about the people that make honest music or try to do sincere things.

Jen: I think it gets, too, to where it's too hard for people to choose. There's too much there, it's too much work to go find it, so they just listen to whatever's there.

Kevin: Exactly. They don't want to think about it, they just…

Jen: Turn on the radio…

Kevin: …and then change the channel and it's the same songs on.

Jen: What amazes me is, the big Clear Channel rock station here, which I use as a clock radio because it comes in at my house, and it's on in my car for in between changing CD's, but what I hear of it is they're playing the same Van Halen songs, the same Led Zeppelin songs, over and over and over again. Isn't everybody sick to death of those songs?

Kevin: And I pray that eventually people do because, I don't know, that's a crazy empire. I just can't believe how much money there is, and why isn't there… I don't know. I watched a thing where Tom Petty was getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, and there was somebody that had helped him, and he'd brought him there. Back when he was a garage band, this guy basically gave his band a place to stay, paid for a recording for him, 'cause he had faith in him. This wealthy guy had faith. And his point was people out there with money need to start doing that, like find a band, support a band, and I think that was a pretty cool thing.

Mike: That's a great idea.

Jen: Like art patrons.

Kevin: Exactly. And that's basically what he was saying, "I would not be standing here if it wasn't for this guy throwing out $500 a month for a year."

Rick: I think that kind of patronage is very European. I don't think it ever came to America.

Mike: Because we're not even to the point where European society had evolved when they could afford to be patrons. I mean, it took them centuries and centuries and generations full of money, and we've got 200+ years in this country that went from people who came over with nothing and made their own log cabins, to maybe being rich if they're oil tycoons or something. We've barely even crested the hill to the concept of someone finding value in the arts enough that that's what brings society together.

Kevin: There's so much money out there that I'm surprised that it's not done more often.

Jen: It's such a greed society right now, though. It's accumulate it and hang onto it, even if you're not doing anything with it. I mean, what can you do with billions of dollars? It's got to just be sitting there. You might as well do something useful.

Kevin: And I think there's also things the government could do, but they're not real big on the arts.

Mike: Art here needs to be a commodity. It's viewed as either ghastly or just completely superfluous.

Jen: Or entertainment.

Mike: Or it's not good unless it's entertainment.

Kevin: And there are certain countries that actually give government grants to artists and bands. I mean, there's certain European countries where you can get X amount of dollars a year in a government grant to continue in the arts.

Rick: You can do that here, but they're very strict on what you do. They're very concerned about how you're going to use the money. It's not very liberal at all. It's very conservative when it comes to grants for individuals.

Jen: Yeah, I think you pretty much have to document everything and account for everything, and be acceptable.

Rick: Right there it becomes like a government loan for a business. It stops being art and it becomes you're working towards some profit figure developing.

Kevin: The application process is so crazy.

Mike: I think sometimes you need a year of, uh, morphine and womanizing to write your concerto, and if the government's not going to give me that, then I'm not interested. I should spend the money on whatever I wanted. If I get inspired by getting black-out drunk, then they should pay for it.

Kevin: Yeah, but it would be nice, I mean, if people had that there, then a lot more music would get heard. Because sometimes you're almost scoffed upon, I mean, touring bands and stuff like that. It's hard work. Pretty much your whole life is based around that, and saving money to do that, and it's an expensive lifestyle.

Mike: Everybody's like, "Why don't you have a house?"

Kevin: Exactly. I mean, everything that comes in goes towards that, and often nothing really comes from that other than enjoyment, so it is kind of an addiction.

Mike: And it's so weird, I think, people's conception of what it's like to be in a working band. They think everyone that plays music wants to be famous or a rock star, and they never get beyond that level of the flash and the glamour and the lights. I mean, that's not what any of us want.

Jen: I think that's really misunderstood by people who aren't deep into music. A lot of people can't conceive that there are touring musicians or even somebody who has a hit record out that isn't rich and famous and covered with groupies and living in a mansion.

Mike: That's not how it happens.

Kevin: There's a lot of starving artists under the name of a musician. Often, if I don't have money for strings, I won't eat until I have money for strings, you know, because I know that I need those. I'll eat crackers. And we also try to do everything ourselves, too, the label, the promotion, and everything. These guys do all the labor. It amazes me just how much they're actually on it full time. It's beyond a full time job for them.

Jen: I can believe that. Well, if they want to do it, though, don't feel bad, feel grateful.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. I'm very thankful for the guys that I'm playing with.

Mike: He and I run this label, too [Tiberius Records]. I remember somebody from West Virginia sent me a CD and I told him, "Well, I don't have money to put your record out." But if someone sends me something, I'll write everybody back. If they send me a CD, then I'll send them a CD. "Well, I'll at least trade you, but I can't afford to put your record out. We're a small label, but I'll at least trade you a disc, and thank you for sending it."

Jen: You've got, what, three or four bands on there?

Mike: About to have two more, as soon as we get the funds. This band from Columbus have got a record that's completely in the bag that we're waiting for final artwork and stuff.

Rick: Timing and money, and that record will be out.

Jen: Well that's great that you guys have got a good support system and network set up.

Kevin: A few more patrons would be nice.